Ett svenskt cannabisforum Forums Swecan In English Greetings from Holland

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  • #14841

    reaper
    Participant

    Hello to all.

    I just read the following in this thread at marijuana.com where I post under the name solutions.

    Quote:
    Ashtray wanted me to add a plea for help to the global ganja culture. “Anybody who is reading this, please contact Swecan. Sweden is ruining the chances for marijuana legalization in Europe. My government must be defeated. We must save the world from Sweden’s narks.”

    So I decided to register here and express my support for the struggle of the people of Sweden. The quote was from an article in Cannabis Culture. For obvious reasons hardly anyone in the Netherlands takes the opinion of Swedish politicians on drugs very serious :? And judging on the recent changes in policy in the UK, Belgium and many others apparantly only the US drug “warriors” think the Swedish model has some appeal. The Netherlands will present a new (and improved) less prescriptive EU drug strategy under their EU presidency the next six months (more), so I think the direction of Europe in general is positive. It may take some time before the wind of change reaches Sweden though.

    There were some interesting comments on the HNN (Nordick Nutwork as I call them) about them being secret police and teaming up with Scientologists. It would like to hear more juicy details exposing this group of apparent lunatics, unfortunately I do not speak Swedish. Should anyone have news from sweden to share feel free to post it here or for instance at marijuana.com’s Europe section, preferably in English. :D

    United we stand, accepting nothing but individual autonomy.

    PS: thanks Zlatan for relieving Holland of it’s trauma with penalties, and congratulations to Greece :D

    Peace

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  • #190109

    daddy
    Member

    Well, its hard to take out drugpoiltics seriously.. But we must, because its ruining for everyone.. I feel that the last country in the world to legalize is sweden..

    Thanks for your support anyway!

    (And Zlatan sucks ass) 😈

  • #190110

    reaper
    Member

    Oops, I double posted. I thaught something didn’t work 😳 I updated this post so maybe a moderator can delete the other post. I think I have it figured out now, skicka = post, Förgandsgrandska = preview and sparats does not mean failed 😆 Never to old to learn I guess.

    PS: I love Zlatan, though he’s not as good as Petterson was. I go to Ajax matches often. If only Zlatan would play up to his qualities a bit more….

  • #190111

    reaper
    Member

    What can I say? There are many great things with this country, but having a rational and relaxed view on certain things in life isn´t one of those things.
    Here you can rape a five year old child and kill it with a sledge hammer, but if you smoke a spliff and behave like you love life and all human beings, you´re fucked.

    By the way, I’m coming to your country in about 3 weeks or so, for the first time. I hope there is much more to see than cloudy old coffeshops ;-)

    Peace!

  • #190112

    ashtray
    Member

    Hi,

    mokum wrote:
    So I decided to register here and express my support for the struggle of the people of Sweden. The quote was from an article in Cannabis Culture.

    Thanks.. a lot have changed in Sweden since that interview. Sweden now has the organisation NORMAL (http://www.normal.nu) that arranged Swedens first Million Marijuana March. Swecan is more like Overgrow and does not have a official standing in the drugwar. Newspapers and other media are bringing up the topic of legalisation for the first time. maybe not as unbiased as you would want to but its better then the self choosen censorship we had before.

    Quote:
    For obvious reasons hardly anyone in the Netherlands takes the opinion of Swedish politicians on drugs very serious :? And judging on the recent changes in policy in the UK, Belgium and many others apparantly only the US drug “warriors” think the Swedish model has some appeal. The Netherlands will present a new (and improved) less prescriptive EU drug strategy under their EU presidency the next six months.

    Interesting.. im looking forward to it.

    Quote:
    There were some interesting comments on the HNN (Nordick Nutwork as I call them) about them being secret police and teaming up with Scientologists.

    Narconon is a drugrehab related to scientology but i think cult recruiting center is more like it. Hours of sauna and overdoses of vitamines and consuming oil to get rid of radication and other impurities. The patients are presented with material from the church of scientology and are strongly encuraged to find out more about it. Dont know if HNN have any relations to scientology though.

    When it comes to acting as a securitypolice i know that there where atleast one person from one of these organisations on MMM that directly stated that she was there to map the organisation. Another posed as a journalist asking questions (wich i belive to be illegal).

    Quote:
    It would like to hear more juicy details exposing this group of apparent lunatics, unfortunately I do not speak Swedish. Should anyone have news from sweden to share feel free to post it here or for instance at marijuana.com’s Europe section, preferably in English. :D

    I would shower you with it if translating wasnt such a tedious work.

    Quote:
    United we stand, accepting nothing but individual autonomy.

    PS: thanks Zlatan for relieving Holland of it’s trauma with penalties, and congratulations to Greece :D

    Peace

    Peace!

    And thank you for your support..

  • #190113

    reaper
    Member
    Ganjo wrote:
    What can I say? There are many great things with this country, but having a rational and relaxed view on certain things in life isn´t one of those things.
    Here you can rape a five year old child and kill it with a sledge hammer, but if you smoke a spliff and behave like you love life and all human beings, you´re fucked.

    I had no idea it is so repressive in Sweden. I’ve never been there but only hear positive stories from friends who visited. I heard a US drug war zealot saying how the repression in Sweden led to a low number of drug users, he used this “success” to counter the positive experiences we have in Holland with a tolerant drug policy. That’s when I started to do some research on the Swedish drug policy. I came across reports like this from the Centre for Drugs Research, University of Amsterdam, by Tim Boekhout van Solinge (1997) “The Swedish drug control policy. An in-depth review and analysis.” I found this interesting (page 133):

    Quote:
    In the light of the goal of the drug-free society other possible criteria such as the social conditions in which drug users are living, the society’s reactions to drug use, and morbidity and mortality rates, are consequently less relevant. As a matter of fact, the high mortality figures in Sweden have rarely played an role in the drug policy debate. The fact that some of the drug users die, seems to be regarded as a consequence of the game the drug user plays.

    From this article

    Quote:
    The European Monitoring Center for Drugs and Addiction writes in its annual 2000 report that drug overdose death rates in Sweden are among the highest in the EU and more than seven times higher than in the Netherlands. The report also states that the rate of hepatitis C among intravenous drug users in Sweden is over 90 percent, the highest in Europe.

    Those figures made me doubt if it is such a good policy. The social and health conditions of drug users are the key element in the Dutch policy.

    I also came across propaganda by the HNN and other Swedish organisations and was surprised by the tone of their opinions, really bashing the Dutch government and our policy. I hope the image of the Netherlands in Sweden is not that our drug policy is a disaster and that we want everybody on drugs or something. Is the Dutch drug policy even a topic in Sweden?

    Ganjo wrote:
    By the way, I’m coming to your country in about 3 weeks or so, for the first time. I hope there is much more to see than cloudy old coffeshops ;-)

    Heh, there is a lot more to see besides coffeeshops. Maybe not the nicest landscape in Europe but a lot of culture and history. My hometown Amsterdam for instance has the largest number of museums (or maybe the most square feet of museums) per capita in the world and was rated 10th most liveable city in the world in Mercer’s annual report. Have you got any plans to visit different places or things you want to see/do in Holland besides the coffeeshops 😉 ?

    ashtray wrote:
    Narconon is a drugrehab related to scientology but i think cult recruiting center is more like it. Hours of sauna and overdoses of vitamines and consuming oil to get rid of radication and other impurities. The patients are presented with material from the church of scientology and are strongly encuraged to find out more about it. Dont know if HNN have any relations to scientology though.

    I heard of Narconon being run by Scientology before. I don’t have any first hand experience with Scientology but I only hear bad things about them. In Holland for instance they lost a courtbattle 3 times trying to prevent Karin Spaink from publishing documents exposing Scientology like the Fishman Affidavit and Operating Thetan material she put on her http://www.spaink.net homepage. Not exactly the kind of people I would trust to run drugrehab centres.

    Quote:
    I would shower you with it if translating wasnt such a tedious work.

    I know it’s a lot of work. I’ve translated a few Dutch newsreports for marijuana.com that didn’t make headlines in English media.

    Peace. And thanks for the replies :D

  • #190114

    Sweden sucks. Please send some free weed!

    :mrgreen:

    Well it does….too bad. Smoke with ya when the EU finally forces Sweden into decriminalize the personal usage of “the fine weed” :)

  • #190115

    brain
    Member
    Ganjo wrote:
    Here you can rape a five year old child and kill it with a sledge hammer, but if you smoke a spliff and behave like you love life and all human beings, you´re fucked.

    Please, let’s not exaggerate! If you rape and kill a child, you’re fucked. And if you smoke a joint and get cought, you get a fine. Let’s keep the discussion realistic.

  • #190116

    m
    Member
    mokum wrote:
    I also came across propaganda by the HNN and other Swedish organisations and was surprised by the tone of their opinions, really bashing the Dutch government and our policy. I hope the image of the Netherlands in Sweden is not that our drug policy is a disaster and that we want everybody on drugs or something. Is the Dutch drug policy even a topic in Sweden?

    Most people do not know about the positive effects of your drug policy. Being “soft on drugs” (critizising the current prohibition and repressive policy) is political suicide here and media just bashes out the same message as main stream politicians.

  • #190117

    reaper
    Member
    Enviousness wrote:
    Sweden sucks. Please send some free weed!

    Well it does….too bad. Smoke with ya when the EU finally forces Sweden into decriminalize the personal usage of “the fine weed”

    Sure, how many kilo’s of free weed can I send today? :kimblah:

    I doubt the EU will force that on Sweden. I hear Bolkestein wants to sue Sweden on behalf of the EU for the higher taxes on wine than beer and it’s state monopoly on alcohol import. It’s not cannabis, but hey, it’s drugs. As for a common European drug policy, the Dutch government doesn’t want that, our position is that drug policies are health issues that the EU has nothing to say about so they don’t push to much and often agree with symbolic non-binding EU measures. Off course I would like them to tell all the other countries they should legalize, but I am not a politician. :D

    möbelklister wrote:
    Most people do not know about the positive effects of your drug policy. Being “soft on drugs” (critizising the current prohibition and repressive policy) is political suicide here and media just bashes out the same message as main stream politicians.

    I don’t know very much about Sweden, I hear it has had a history of low drug consumption, so maybe Swedes aren’t so amazed as people in other countries where more people smoke weed than in Holland, like Germany, France, the UK, USA etc. That’s a strong argument in other countries, semi-legal weed in the Netherlands AND less people using it. Not to mention the even smaller percentage of Dutch people using more riskfull substances like heroin, crack etc. achieved by seperating the markets for the popular and hardly riskfull cannabis and more riskfull drugs.

  • #190118

    reaper
    Member
    mokum wrote:
    Enviousness wrote:
    Sweden sucks. Please send some free weed!

    Sure, how many kilo’s of free weed can I send today? :kimblah:

    LOL!
    …send me some 3kg’s of weed or whatever… 😆

  • #190119

    raja-ram
    Member
    Quote:
    Those figures made me doubt if it is such a good policy. The social and health conditions of drug users are the key element in the Dutch policy.

    I also came across propaganda by the HNN and other Swedish organisations and was surprised by the tone of their opinions, really bashing the Dutch government and our policy. I hope the image of the Netherlands in Sweden is not that our drug policy is a disaster and that we want everybody on drugs or something. Is the Dutch drug policy even a topic in Sweden?

    Unfortunately, that’s almost how it is. The Swedish media and politicians give us the image that Dutch policy is just a way to not deal with the drug issues. They try to convince us that your policy is collapsed, out of control and many people in Netherlands are drugabusing lunatics. :?

    But the winds are somewhat changing, some newspapers have actually had political articles where they embrace the Dutch policy, and claim that Sweden’s drugfree society policy is impossible, ineffective and inhumane.

  • #190120

    reaper
    Member
    Raja Ram wrote:
    The Swedish media and politicians give us the image that Dutch policy is just a way to not deal with the drug issues. They try to convince us that your policy is collapsed, out of control and many people in Netherlands are drugabusing lunatics. :?

    But the winds are somewhat changing, some newspapers have actually had political articles where they embrace the Dutch policy, and claim that Sweden’s drugfree society policy is impossible, ineffective and inhumane.

    I’m glad that is changing. Of course from the Dutch harm reduction perspective prohibitionist regimes like Sweden or the USA are the ones not dealing with the drug issue by clinging on to this fantasy of a drug free society, regardless of the damage inflicted on it’s citizens.

    I like the writings of prof Peter Cohen of the university of Amsterdam (http://www.cedro-uva.org), like “Bewitched, bedevilled, possessed, addicted” and “The drug prohibition church and the adventure of reformation”. Comparing the “war on drugs” and “addiction treatment” with the inquisition and excorcism. He also researched drug use in San Fransisco and Amsterdam and found that laws banning drugs do not affect the number of people using drugs and was heard by the Canadian senate. I would love to see him in a discussion with a Swedish repressionist.

  • #190121

    reaper
    Member

    Not sure if we’ll ever see Mokum back on these forums, however, if you’re still visiting and reading this I have a question for you:

    Does Dutch media ever blame crimes that happen on weed? Do you ever hear people ‘scientifically’ (other than close minded people’s opinions) say that weed causes crimes or any kind of violence?

  • #190122

    loffe
    Member

    And is the word “Hasch Psychosis” used in any other country than Sweden? :)

  • #190123

    reaper
    Member
    Vimmel wrote:
    Not sure if we’ll ever see Mokum back on these forums, however, if you’re still visiting and reading this I have a question for you:

    Does Dutch media ever blame crimes that happen on weed? Do you ever hear people ‘scientifically’ (other than close minded people’s opinions) say that weed causes crimes or any kind of violence?

    I try to check this forum every now and then.

    As far as I know the Dutch media has never – ever – ever blamed crime on weed since the use of cannabis was noticed in the 60’s. The authorities noticed that the hippies who gathered to openly smoke in public places were peaceful people who gave less trouble than alcohol users.

    Anyone who claims weed causes crime is obviously an incredible idiot. Just as anyone who claims prohibition will reduce use of cannabis is an unrealistic dreamer living in a fantasy world.

    loffe wrote:
    And is the word “Hasch Psychosis” used in any other country than Sweden?

    Sure, in the USA. Sweden is kissing American butts big time when it comes to the Global War on Drugs.

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